During this episode of Why Change? co-hosts Karla and Jeff discuss creative approaches to justice in their work. Jeff interviews Amir Whitaker - a.k.a. Dr. Knucklehead - about his work as an artist, activist, and attorney delivering on the promise of arts and cultural education to California’s young people while maintaining his practice as a musician. This episode examines different approaches for creative social justice projects led by intergenerational teams of youth and adults balancing self-care and artistic practice as healing throughout the process.
In this episode you’ll learn:
How you can cultivate the conditions for young creatives to pursue social justice;
About multiple arts-based, youth-led social justice projects in Los Angeles and Chicago; and
Why your artistic practice can be healing.
Check out some of the things mentioned during this podcast, including:
Free Street Theatre and their project Parched
Project Knucklehead and their Fellows
AfroUnidad project about the African diaspora
ABOUT AMIR WHITAKER
Amir is an educator, author, civil rights lawyer, and musician. He is the founder and director of Project KnuckleHead, a nonprofit organization empowering youth through music, art, and educational programs since 2013.
Often referred to as “Dr. KnuckleHead,” Amir was introduced to the criminal justice system as a child when he visited both his mother and father in prison. At age 15, Amir himself was arrested and entered the juvenile justice system. Problems at school eventually led to him being expelled. Despite these hardships, Amir went on to complete five college degrees.
As a lawyer referred to as a “civil rights and education stalwart” by the Daytona Times, Amir has negotiated settlements and policy changes that have improved the lives of thousands of youth across the country. Amir is currently a policy attorney with the ACLU of Southern California and researcher with the UCLA Civil Rights Project. At the Southern Poverty Law Center, Amir worked on a class action lawsuit on behalf of incarcerated youth receiving inadequate education, mental health, and rehabilitation services. Within the Juvenile Division of the Miami-Dade County Public Defender’s Office, Amir represented incarcerated youth and developed training materials. He has taught varying grade levels and in different educational settings for over a decade, and has held teaching certifications in Florida, California, and New Jersey. He has delivered keynote speeches to thousands, and written for leading publications across the country, including Washington Post and TIME Magazine. Amir's recently released autobiography has been featured on ABC News and in The New Yorker. He received his doctorate in Educational Psychology from the University of Southern California, juris doctorate from the University of Miami, and his bachelors from Rutgers University.
Find Dr. Knucklehead on Instagram: @DrKnuckleHead_Esq
This episode of Why Change? A Podcast for the Creative Generation was powered by Creative Generation. It was produced and edited by Daniel Stanley. Artwork by Bridget Woodbury. Music by Distant Cousins.
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Jeff M. Poulin
This is Why Change? The Podcast for Creative Generation. We are your hosts. I'm Jeff.
Karla Estela Rivera
Hola. Hola, soy Karla.
Rachael Jacobs
It's Rachael here.
Ashraf Hasham
What's good, y'all. I'm Ashraf.
Madeleine McGirk
And I'm Madeleine.
Jeff M. Poulin
Why change? is a podcast that brings listeners around the globe to learn how arts, culture and creativity, especially as applied by young people, can change the world, one community at a time. You're invited each week to learn and laugh while exploring the question- Why change? Alright, let's get started.
Welcome to this episode of the Why Change? podcast. I am one of your co-hosts, Jeff Poulin and I'm joined here by another co-host, Karla Estela Rivera. Karla, how are you?
Karla Estela Rivera
Hey! I'm doing really well.
Jeff M. Poulin
Excellent. It is so good to see you. It's been a little while since you've been on the podcast. If listeners want to scroll on back, you can hear my interview with Karla at the very start of our podcasts. But it's really great to hear your voice with us today and to see how you're doing. So what's been going on in your world in Chicago?
Karla Estela Rivera
Lots of things are going on, particularly in the free street world, we are about to embark on a huge project called 57 blocks. And 57 blocks is the show that is focused on basically uniting our north side and our south side ensembles. And from our Kalaskie Park location to our Back of the Yards location, there's 57 blocks. So what we are, what we're exploring in this, outside of just uniting both of our ensembles, which is really exciting for us, is this notion of pathways, portals and pipelines, which are all these buzzwords that you often hear, particularly when we're talking about young people and their futures, right? So within these three words, we're looking at education, immigration, and incarceration, which are three really major issues that our young people face and grapple with, and are often labeled, as, you know, the pathways that they go through, I think are often pre determined for them by folks. And so the way that these young people are really exploring these themes, and telling the stories, and really utilizing this show and these tools to advocate for themselves, and really bring to light, how, you know, a multi-generational audience could really help address and shift the narrative with them is really, really exciting for me.
Jeff M. Poulin
That's so great. And I also love too just that idea of pathways and portals and pipelines, because they're also elements of like the infrastructure of a community, right? Like the pipelines that deliver water or take away used water, or the pathways that people walk as they go to their jobs or go to school, like that's such an integral element. And we have turned those terms into buzzwords that can either be negative or positively associated with things. You think that, you know pathway, the school to prison pipeline, for example, or the pathway to student success, right, there's connotation that's built in with those, and it's really important to, like, unpack that. And particularly, and sort of this intergenerational way that you're going about, I think, is really great, because that's one thing that I've noticed at least is language between generations changes. And things that are either reclaimed, or no longer acceptable, can create some inter community strife. So theatrical exploration about that sounds like a really fantastic pursuit to be on.
Karla Estela Rivera
Absolutely. And I think it's interesting. The other thing that I love about that is that, you know, often, you know, folks that are in seats, that are creating policy, right, whether it is legislation, or whether it is school policy, or whether, you know, it is, you know, the rules in which you operate in a particular space, often aren't taking into consideration the language and the needs are not meeting young people where they're at, to ensure that it's, it's not just these rules that we create, because we think it's, you know, it's good for you. But, you know, when we say these things, or when we create these systems, or create these rules and policies, how are they deeply affecting you? And are they… and I'll, you know, kind of reference our podcasts a little bit that we're going to be talking about in a bit, you know… is this creativity, or does this lead to creative chaos? Right, and so, so that is an exciting thing to see our young people develop and who they bring into the conversation.
Jeff M. Poulin
Right, and that's one thing that's so important, at least for me and for all of us at Creative Generation is the exploration and the opportunity for young creatives, in particular, to use that creativity to tackle these issues of justice. I know in the past that Free Street, which is the uh, you know, social justice focus theater program that you run in Chicago, you know, you focused on issues of, of water and of the ecology around your city. And young people had a lot to say about what they learned from their communities, but also about their visions for the future. And that was a really tremendous piece. And, and I know, there's also other types of justice oriented work that you do outside of the theater world. So can you tell us a little bit about how you all tackle issues of justice within the neighborhoods that you operate in in Chicago?
Karla Estela Rivera
Oh, goodness. You know, it's, it's, you know, many different ways, I think. To take it back to Free Street, to, you know, one exciting thing that we see as a result of our young people engaging and kind of unpacking these major themes through theater is that often these young people end up moving on to becoming activists in their own right. So when we did ‘Parched,’ which was the one focused on water justice, and even ‘Wasted,’ which was on environmental justice in the city of Chicago, what we saw, because through our partnerships with organizations that are on the ground, doing this work day in and day out, is that these partnerships, then lead these young people to then become activists in their own right within these spaces, even outside of theater. And so, so what I'm also working on personally, both through my work at Free Street, and also through, just through the sector writ large, is, you know, how do we begin to create the conditions by which not only young people can engage in their art and develop their social consciousness, and really unpack these issues through theater? But then how do we create the conditions that can then ultimately bring them back into the field? And that, for me, is wage equity. And so, you know, we have, we've seen a couple of really interesting initiatives. Michelle Obama had announced this partnership with the Posse Foundation, Lin Manuel Miranda, to bring posse scholars into fine arts colleges and universities. And to that, I say, wow, that's wonderful. But where are we sending them? And how are we making sure that when they graduate from college, they can raise a family as an artist? And so that wage equity, and of course, you know, diversifying the field, and bringing in more BIPOC leaders and BIPOC folks into the spaces has been a major focus of mine over the last year. Because, you know, yes, art for art's sake is absolutely important, and is a key element of all of us, really, unpacking all of the things in processing all of the things. But we also do need more artists and leaders to continue that tradition. And so if I do anything in this world, in the seats that I am in, is, you know, if I can leave it, knowing that, you know, we have created a world where, you know, these young people can then come back as adults, and “next level it” through their artistic practice and through their lenses. And they don't have to have five different side hustles to help make that happen, then I'm happy. And then we have created a legacy that will then impact not only their neighborhoods and their communities, but then kind of the country and, and the world.
Jeff M. Poulin
You know, so much of what you just talked about speaks to the themes that emerged from my conversation with Amir Whitaker or Dr. Knucklehead as he's known. He's an artist and musician, a lawyer for the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) in Southern California, a board member of several arts and culture organizations, and a person who does exactly what you were just talking about someone who, who cultivates the conditions for young creatives to pursue the social change that they want to see. And so much of his work was tied towards paying young artists to be activists in tackling policy issues that run outside of the education or arts and culture sectors. And, and I think actually maybe taking some of the work that you do and taking some of the work that he does, are two really fascinating case studies that could really help inform the fields but I'll stop talking about that. Why don't we let our listeners hear the conversation that we had and then we'll come back on the flip side.
Just a quick note before we start, Amir uses some punctuated language to emphasize one of his points in our conversation. Just wanted to give you all a heads up.
Karla Estela Rivera
Sounds good.
Jeff M. Poulin
Welcome, Amir. I am thrilled to have you join us on the Why Change? podcast. You know we first met a few years ago through a mutual colleague and we stayed in touch ever since through our mutual work at the intersection of arts and education and social change. You know, I just am so thrilled that you're here to share some of your story with us today.
Amir Whitaker
Thanks for having me, Jeff. Yeah. And I do remember us meeting at that very powerful meeting with legislators and stuff, and to be able to share some narrative thing, but also just to see where this movement has grown since then, and the work that you've been doing part of that, so just great to be here.
Jeff M. Poulin
Well, thanks. Yeah, it has been quite a journey since then. I remember back, it was a hotel in Los Angeles, at that conference with a bunch of state legislators. And that was such a cool moment. I think everyone was just blown away by all of the stories that came out. And, you know, I was really impressed with some of your approaches, and just this radical grounding in creativity and justice of your work with young people of your own personal practice, as an artist and as an advocate. And really the things that you've gone on to do both as an activist and musician, also with organizations like the ACLU of Southern California, and more. So can you just give our listeners a bit of your origin story and how you got to where you are today?
Amir Whitaker
Sure, absolutely. So, I mean, born and raised in Jersey. You know, that's home, that's the old country, the first 21 years of my life. And there, my father was a musician. So I guess in the arts, that's kind of my gateway during the hip hop generation to hip hop, the birth of hip hop, and he was a DJ. And always wanted to play instruments, wanted to do more with music. And always loved what my dad did electronically and different things. But I wasn't able to get like an instrument until I was in high school. And, well, shortly after graduating high school, actually. And what I noticed was what having that instrument did for me, or having that creative outlet, how it supported me kept me safe, you know, provided me sanctuary, and just did so much for me. That was like my introduction into the arts and becoming someone who embraced the arts. But, you know, Dr. Knucklehead, as I'm referred to, the path has lots of twists and turns. You know, I was arrested as a youth, kicked out of school, and got in all sorts of… well, I still get in trouble sometimes. It's usually good trouble now. But um, you know, but before I really locked into the arts, I had a lot of things, my creative energy was not always directed in the right direction. You know, so with project knucklehead, I say, the formula we always say, creative energy plus, no creative outlet equals a creative disaster. You know, a lot of our young people are getting in trouble are, you know, doing different things because of that lack of creative outlet. So, you know, my story, I saw that personally, growing up. And actually, I have my guitar here. When I actually got my first instrument, my first guitar, I purchased it with crack cocaine, because I'd never had a music class in my high school. Even though I'm a musician today. And like, professional musician, I just had a gig last week, pretty much how to get every week, the past couple of weeks. And it, you know, it brings in money, some of my closest friends are musicians now, and that sort of thing. But in high school, I didn't even have a music class, you know. And I come from the city in New Jersey, Plainfield, New Jersey, or P funk, as we call it. That's a very musical city, you know, we have musicians that are in a Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, you know, musicians that played with Miles Davis, and yet, I didn't have exposure to music in, in my high school. So, you know, after finishing high school going through, you know, I was a knucklehead, so I got kicked out of school, you know. I started a community college, and was eventually transferred to a university where I minored in music and just, you know, studied music more. And then in grad school, where, and that's where I moved to Los Angeles about 15 years ago for grad school, and, you know, just here, the arts and culture in the city are just so inspiring, right? It's, it's, it's all over. I mean, it's what brings people to the city. To be honest, my introduction to LA came through the arts, you know, through hip hop, and through the movies and different things, that was my reference point. So even though as we all know, it clearly is not all real, right? And that's the thing about the arts - it creates some greater canvas or a whole new picture. But sometimes we can't distinguish that from reality, especially here in LA. But it's a very inspired city. Here we talk about the creative economy where one out of six jobs are actually, in the, or require, you know, the creative skill or in the creative sector. Yet we have some of our youth we work with through project knucklehead, that don't have Arts in their school and they've had to start petitions to keep Arts in their school and that sort of thing. So we're seeing a generation later, because it's hard to make I'm a full generation ago, but a generation later, you know, we were still saying the lack of access for students to have arts. Especially for low income students, Black and Brown students, marginalized students. And project knucklehead and Dr. knucklehead, you know, I've been on a path that's been over the past few years, especially meeting with you, Jeff, right? There's just been this intersection of, you know, art, creativity, and then justice and freedom and liberation. You know, I mean, people, there's creative justice, we have this arts justice movement, we started at the ACLU. You know, Arts for Incarcerated Youth Network is now called the, you know, Arts for Healing and Justice Network. And there's this intersection and understanding, growing understanding that there's a connection between arts and justice. And I like to think that, you know, Dr. knucklehead lives right on the intersection of the streets of art and justice.
Jeff M. Poulin
So you've mentioned this nickname, Dr. Knucklehead, which I love. And I know that you've done a lot of work in the legal side of things with the ACLU and advocating in that real formal capacity. So talk to me a little bit about what a musician is doing as a lawyer and advocating for justice reform.
Amir Whitaker
Absolutely. So I'm part of the ACLU of Southern California, and we're based in Los Angeles, and we cover, you know, much of southern California or millions of people, millions of students even we support. And I'm one of about 35 - 40 lawyers. And even in our office, my boss used to call me a free spirit lawyer. Even though you know, law itself is definitely an art, it's not a science, you know. So justice is art, because we were still trying to figure out what it is and create it every day. Freedom is a practice always say, you know, it's something like art you know, you develop throughout your life. And at the ACLU, well, in California, I should start, three… over three and a half years ago, when I first moved back to California, you know. Well, let me go back before that. I moved back to California from Alabama about four years ago. And in Alabama, I was working for the Southern Poverty Law Center, another civil rights law firm. And doin’ education work as well, working for young people. And I remember meeting with some superintendents and some school districts where they're making tough decisions and making cuts and one superintendent, I'll never forget, when he described, like, his quote, he said, “yeah, we just eliminated artists from all of our middle schools.” And he shared that with me and my jaw kind of dropped, because, you know, middle school, teens and preteens, anyone who raises them, or has little cousins or siblings know that they're a hot mess. And if they don't have something for their time, or energy or imagination, then you've got trouble, the school environment will suffer, right? Because we were there doing work because we wanted to improve the conditions. So I remember hearing that in Alabama, and it wasn't a damn thing I could do about it, because there was no law to protect it. When I moved to California four years ago, and really, when I came to the ACLU about three and a half years ago, we learned about the, or they were already active, or were aware that the California Education Code, you know, guaranteed the right to Arts in your school for students, and not just like, you know, art always, you know, making glue and macaroni to a piece of paper when you're in kindergarten kind of art, which you know, thta’s beautiful art not taking nothing from it. But students have the right to visual art, dance, music, you know, and other forms of art, theater, and even Media Arts, right? Because arts is robust. We're here in the land of Disney and imagination. So students have a right to that in their classroom. And once I was aware of that, and knew that we had that sward there, um, you know, I just started connecting with arts advocates, the California Alliance for arts education, Arts for Incarcerated Youth Network, I actually joined their board and had become board chair and just started intersecting with folks that are doing work for what they call art equity. I mean, I call it art equality, because we still don't have equal arts yet, you know? Equity is beyond equality. And we're not even at equality. So, you know, I saw this work and I, what we added to it, or what I added to it was the framing of arts as a civil rights and human rights. You know, because ACLU, we're a civil rights organization, we sue the government, you know, like we sued the Trump administration over 400 times for his related civil rights violations. We sue, you know, city government, county government, state government, we push legislative to protect the people. And since millions of California students are having their arts right, their right to arts violated, I wanted to do something about it, we wanted to do something about it. So we've been meeting with partners, considering different strategies, and we started a whole movement called Arch Justice. Which I remember starting it and creating the hashtag #archjustice almost three years ago and thinking like man, is this something that people are going to understand or will it you know, how will it go? And, you know, lo and behold, a few years later, our students started a whole arts justice council, it’s all over the state of California. One of my interns, former intern who just graduated from law school, just finished law school yesterday, she started a whole organization called arts justice that, you know, gave art supplies to hundreds of youth. And if you look at the hashtag #artsjustice, you'll see it's been used by many organizations, and some organizations have adopted it. So, you know, the arts justice movement is afoot and COVID hit and kind of, you know, threw a wrench in things like it all day with everything, but we're still alive, and we're still moving.
Jeff M. Poulin
That's great. And, you know, we at Creative Generation absolutely support that whole line of thinking about arts and cultural education as a human right. You and I have actually shared a virtual stage, talking about that issue with a lot of policy makers and researchers and, and other thinkers in our field. And we'll definitely drop a link to the arts justice work in the show notes, because it is really, really important. But there's an interesting dichotomy in that, right? Like, we have to be working in the public policy space to ensure that there is equal or further equitable access to arts education to deliver on that promise for all young people. But then we also know that when young people have that robust arts and cultural education, they actually can use their music or visual art, as protest to advance other issues of justice in our communities. And I know I've seen you all out drumming on the steps of City Hall or other government buildings. So talk to me a little bit about how you work with young people to use their art in the pursuit of broader justice issues.
Amir Whitaker
Absolutely. And that relates to why it's a civil right, because art is a form of speech. And we have a constitutional right to freedom of speech, and freedom of expression. And art is just one of the most spiritual, purest and raw forms of that, right? And everyone knows that. So what we've been doing with the youth, actually we've learned from youth. Shout out to, you know, one youth, her name is Maya Edwards Pena. She graduated from Venice high school class of 2020. But I've been taking dance with this young lady… she’s been teaching dance and protest since he was 16. You know, I remember over three years ago at a protest, or 30,000 people protesting, you know, with the teachers in Los Angeles, and Maya was teaching dance. And I've worked with this group of students, students deserve to do other… put on art galleries and different things. And even before when I was in Florida and Alabama, we work with students to just creatively express and creatively dissent. Because, you know, art, art is feared. I think that's one of the reasons why it's not in education, too, because art holds up a mirror, right? And art holds up the truth. And people know that that's why dictators and oppressive governments, they always go for the artists, they always try to suppress art because it's the raw form of truth. And what we started last year, during the uprising after the murder of our brother, George Floyd, you know, a whole movement started, right? Globally. Just one of the largest movements in history. That's still alive, we feel is still alive, more still part of that. But something happened where people started donating and supporting, you know, black nonprofits. And Project Knucklehead, we've been around for nine years. But we received more donations last year than we did in our entire nine years of existence, essentially. But there was one and you know, I'm the volunteer director. So we've been around nine years, but we've been on a shoestring budget, that some years, literally half of it has come from, you know, whatever I could donate or all, it's always usually what we could raise. And sometimes we get little grants. But last year, we received a generous donation, just $25,000. And what I did with that money was since it came in the spirit of our brother, George Floyd, you know, I reached out to 15, or actually about 20, young black artists from ages 13 you know, and up, and just offered them fellowships to create in the spirit of justice in the spirit of freedom, and offered them stipends, and we call the program our freedom fellows. And, you know, the youth were all over the country, and we even had a few globally. But our youth in here in LA came up with the idea of doing something called Freedom Fridays, where we would take over, basically continue to uprise, continue to protest. Because this, we started this back in August, when people were still out on the streets every day. So we said, well, we want to be out in the streets to not only that, but we want to bring people to medicine. We want to bring people to dance, the drumming, the music. We call it a creative uprising from our very first action at city hall where we had action in City Hall, and we marched to LAPD down the street. We had an action to LA City Hall and we marched to LAPD down the street. And we've pretty much kept that up monthly. And now we're on month nine. And each time we actually center the arts. That’s very much intentional. One, knowing that students, and youth don't have access to it, but also that we, as human beings, need that for our own healing, for our own sanity. You know, I think this pandemic has shown us when you see people, you know, Netflix and all these other creative media places are cleaning up because people are really turning to the arts, and people realize how much they miss their concerts and their outdoor events. And, you know, the arts are part of our soul. And the soul is a part of our wellness and our existence. So through the creative uprisings, you know, literally just following the youth, ‘free the youth,’ and our mantra at Project Knucklehead is ‘free the youth’. And we use that as, to represent both, you know, freedom of expression, creative expression, but also freedom from the systems of oppression, right? So freedom from police, you know, harming our communities, freedom from cages, and mass incarceration in the prison industrial complex, that prioritizes money over livelihood. So we're still trying to get free. And for us a Project Knucklehead, in our youth art is just one of the most important forms of freedom.
Jeff M. Poulin
I so appreciate that perspective. And, you know, in some of our research at Creative Generation, we've, we found that, you know, there's an element that will sort of always be there is that that young creatives, who are operating in the pursuit of social change, and their adult counterparts, who are supporting their work, always will be navigating these very strict systems that govern what they do. Whether that be the justice system, or the arts and culture funding system or the education system. Because we operate in societies that have systems for everything. And that type of work, what we've found is just incredibly exhausting for people. And so that idea of wellness, starting really with yourself, to be well, particularly through the arts is so important to allow us as people as humans to be able to pursue these broader objectives that we're trying to do by changing those systems. And, and so I just, I want to underscore that point that like, we have to bring that, that personal and community wellness into the equation, when we're doing these large scale type of projects, like you all are doing with those freedom Fridays, because that's how we stay well and able to do that. And I know that you, as a musician, have gone on a little bit of a journey to explore music and culture, from you know, your own cultures. I'm traveling around the world. Can you tell us a little bit about the journey that you went on last year?
Amir Whitaker
Absolutely. Sure. So starting in 2019, I actually gave my boss, the one who called me the free spirit lawyer, I gave them an ultimatum and said, “Hey, I kind of need to do this project that requires me to travel through all these countries and be out of the office a lot. And if y'all let me do it out, I'm going to leave.” Literally, you know, my dream job, I had to give them that ultimatum. But luckily, they were understanding like, “Alright Amir, we got you,you can go.” So over the next nine months, you know, from… I started in June 2019 nd I pretty much went up until February until COVID hit. I traveled through 17 countries and I think probably about 20 states, you know, just all over… On this journey to explore music of the afro diaspora, the afro experience. Because I myself didn't even know that black people were all over the world. We're in Panama, we're in Peru, we're in Colombia and Costa Rica, and you know, all over because, you know, enslaved people went to all of these places. And we have this view in America or in the United States that, you know, Black is this and Latin is this and you know, so to even connect with our Afro Latin brothers and sisters… So I traveled through… even the Caribbean, the first place I went to was Jamaica. And I worked with some youth there. We actually created music, Project Knucklehead built like some music studios and provided equipment to the libraries. And then we went through Central America, went from everywhere. I mean, started in Belize, Guatemala, El Salvador, Peru, you know, in South America, Colombia, Argentina. And what I've noticed is culture and art is like a passport. You know, especially if you're American, if you're a Black American. You see our art and culture everywhere. Hip Hop is king. You know, hip hop is a language and a religion in most places. You know, soul, blues, rock and roll, jazz salsa, different, you know, experiences and music. If you… I've been able to connect with people, I mean, even today, I'm talking to people in Cuba, Brazil, in Colombia, you know, like all about Afro culture. And it came from this journey, where I studied on that journey… I guess I left this out, but I started it in 2019, because that was 400 years since 1619, when enslaved Africans first came to what's now known as, you know, the United States, or America. And I felt like I didn't know my own culture and my own traditions as an African. And even though my family's been here for hundreds of years, but through cultural genocide, it was, there was active cultural genocide were colonizers, erase, you know what I had, the memory. So, you know, I mean, even me having braids, right? This is like an afro expression. And it's art because there's like symmetry in it. But this is something we've handed down through generations, that's been around 1000s of years. But not all traditions lasted. You know, they took our drum, they made it illegal for us to dance certain ways. So through that they killed our culture. But what I found was by traveling throughout, you know, the Caribbean and Latin America, and I can't wait to travel to Africa as well. But I've been able to reconnect with culture, and reconnect with Afro culture. And through that, I've found some of my new best friends, you know? And it's always like that with the arts, like, I find that you connect with artists, and just people who appreciate the arts, or we call ourselves culturalists, you know, culturalists just have a different way of connecting to everything around us. And I feel like I found a new village to traveling.
Jeff M. Poulin
I love that. And you know, it's funny, the all of the co-hosts on this podcast, we, that's what we talk about, when we get together, as we've all gotten to know each other, through this, this experience, the shared experience that we have of being in the creative sector, and doing the type of work that we do. And it is that shared language, even though all of us come from vastly different backgrounds, we have a type of shared history. And and that's something that has become- I love that term, that passport- that allows you to come together with people. So, I, thanks for sharing that story. That's really powerful, I would hope that a lot, a lot more people would be able to do something like that in their lifetimes.
Amir Whitaker
It was privileged, like to be able to do it, you know, like, I didn't have children, and I had a job, and I was willing to like lose my job over it. But sometimes, that's why freedom is a practice. Like, I woke up that morning and said, I'm free. I'm going to be free today. And for me to be free. I need to do this.
Jeff M. Poulin
Wow. That is just such a powerful statement to end our conversation on. As we get to know folks all around the world, one of the things that most interests me is what really keeps people ticking, what keeps them focused on what it is that they do. And it sounds like you had one really tremendous experience that, that allowed for you to explore that within yourself. And as we've been talking to people, we've asked the same set of questions to everybody. And I hope that maybe you could do the same for us today. Let's get started here. The first one is who inspires you?
Amir Whitaker
The youth. I think, you know, the future. Because they are the future. And seeing their hope and their potential because I love it. Yesterday, I had a presentation with four young people who just did better than me. And they're all in high school. And that's just so inspiring to… they, because they have the solutions, you know? They're not as corrupt as us. And their minds haven't been as jaded. So like, I like the Creative Generation, right? It's like a new thing. So the youth always inspire us. And in hip hop, we have a saying we say hip hop is dead. Because each day there's going to be something new that the youth, they're going to create a new version of it. So the youth in that infinite inspiration inspire me.
Jeff M. Poulin
What keeps you motivated?
Amir Whitaker
I think, motivation for me, and I studied motivation The doctor came in educational psychology, where I literally had to take several classes on human motivation. And I think it's two things. I always feel like I'm running, right, but am I running? Or am I chasing something? Or am I running from something, you know? And there's a difference. Because I’m definitely, there's a fear, I'm motivated by the fear of what would happen in like, I just, I gotta, you know, support and create liberation, because a part of me can't exist, I can't exist in the world... We know we're not in a just complete society, at least some of us have accepted that. And I always think of the quote from Howardson, you know, he's a historian and one of my favorite people, I was a history major too. But he says, You can't be neutral on a moving train, you know,? So society is going in one direction, and it's taken us in one direction. And if you're not doing anything, you're part of that. So my motivation is to help reroute that train and get us on the right path to justice. And, you know, it's my love for my people. And that's all people, you know, all human people, but especially African people.
Jeff M. Poulin
Where are you most grounded?
Amir Whitaker
I think I'm most grounded... It's interesting. It's a good and a bad thing, but in my head and myself, because I'm able to have really honest conversations with myself at the end of the day. I'm really comfortable looking in the mirror and talking to myself and being honest about what I need for me, and what I have to do. And that allows me to, you know, be confident in how I have to walk through the world, or if I have to say no to things, or if from other people even within myself. So I'm grounded in knowing that I can, as we say, in Jersey, oh, you know, keep it real with myself, like and be real. Because I'm not… Dr. Knucklehead doesn't have fear of the honesty with himself because it hurts, it's the truth, right? But like, I think that's such a grounding thing to be, to be able to face yourself.
Jeff M. Poulin
How do you stay focused?
Amir Whitaker
God, who said, I stay focused? That's a great thing, I think, you know, I grab myself, and it relates to being grounded. But like, you know, every morning, I start with a prayer to the ancestors, and just kind of grounding myself in understanding that I'm part of something that started before me, and that will continue after me. So I'm just a light in the bright, gleaming, you know, shine of history. So, as we say, keep our eyes on the prize. You know, that's one of my favorite freedom songs, and a song I wrote, I say that repeatedly. So my focus, what helped me keep focus is keep my eyes on the prize, you know, it's a daily struggle. And as I said, freedom is a practice and hope is a discipline, you know? So both of those things. I have days where I don't have hope. I actually had a period of years, I think, where I was like, man, fuck hope. But um, you know, staying focused, just reminds… staying focused requires those constant reminders that it's a process. And, you know, sometimes you might, it might seem like you're not making progress, but you can't let that make you lose focus.
Jeff M. Poulin
And, finally Why change?
Amir Whitaker
Well, why not change? I say, why not change? Because I don't think we've gotten it correct yet, at least the story of America, right? And I know, there are millions of people who disagree with that, who feel like America was great, and we need to make it like it was. But there's so many people who feels like America has never lived up to its promise. America has never reached its potential. And they're now realizing it as a global community, who, you know, we're pushing the world. It's a global thing. There's United Nations, right? And international bodies that really need to do better for the world, because we're facing extinction with our planet. We're facing global pandemic. We're facing all of these things. So, you know, it's really important. Well,
Jeff M. Poulin
Thank you so much for being with us on the life change podcast. This has been a really great conversation, and I appreciate you spending the time with us.
Amir Whitaker
Thank you. Great to see you, Jeff.
Jeff M. Poulin
All right, Karla, we are back. You know, I so enjoy my time with Dr. Knucklehead every time I'm with him, I learn so much because he is so smart and has this tremendous perspective to see things from all sorts of different angles, policy, youth development, through his lens as a musician, and a cultural practitioner, and so much more. I'm wondering though, I've known him for a while and you are just hearing his story for the first time, what really stood out to you most?
Karla Estela Rivera
You know, I identified a lot with his own personal trajectory. I think this notion of being a young person trying to find their place in the world, and creativity or a lack of resources to fully develop your creativity, you know, is certainly something that I know so many of our young folks, even today struggle with. And so I acknowledge that and the challenges that in that school systems have, particularly under resourced communities to make this happen, and so many are. But still this narrative, when he mentioned the work that he was doing in Alabama, and hearing and having his jaw dropped when, you know, somebody said “yeah, we're just going to cut the arts from all middle schools,” and which kind of helped reinforce a lot of my own passions in ensuring that young people, that all young people, have access to the arts within the school day, which kind of harkens to the work that I've done in Illinois. But I you know, and again, like this notion of a lack of creative outlets and a lack of creative resources leads to this creative chaos. And the fact that, you know, it is through creativity, that he has been able to kind of weave his life in and out into these fields: education, law, and the fact that that art never left him... and that it was so impactful, that not only did it not leave him, but that it should not leave anybody. And that, you know, that we need more Dr. Knuckleheads at the policy level, really continuing to tell the story about how the arts is, you know, there are not an extra thing. They are not a punctuation, they are not simply an ephemeral moment, they are part of our DNA and the fiber of who we are. And arts is a civil right, is something that we see in the original, you know, in the original ESA policy, you know, at the national level. And I felt affirmed, in what Amir was saying, and I truly hope that, you know, and we need more Amirs, and I want to find all of the Amirs of the world, because I know we are all out there, you know, doing the thing. But you know, I often wonder, you know, I think our climb is still convincing legislators and convincing policymakers in education and the like that, you know, art is not just something you can casually pull out and pull back in, and not see a direct effect on the whole child.
Jeff M. Poulin
You know, that's exactly right. Karla, I think one of the things that stood out to me in this conversation and many conversations that you and I have both been in, and you mentioned some of your work doing policy work in in Illinois, and I was present for a lot of that, as well, which is, you know, how we got to know each other. But what's amazing to me is this misconception that the arts aren't part of family life, of your neighborhood and community, of the school system, of the justice system, of the Food and Agriculture system, of Housing and Urban Development, there are arts and cultural elements of all of those things.
Karla Estela Rivera
Yes.
Jeff M. Poulin
And it's wild to me that people think that we can divorce it out, or simply just remove it as if it wouldn't have any impact if we didn't properly resource it or if it didn't actually transcend those elements of people that have been extrapolated into sectors of our societies. And that also speaks to the fact that we can't think that we're done if just the arts are put in schools and kids have 60 or 70 minutes of arts and cultural education a week, or if we pass more money in a budget that fund arts and cultural organizations. We really have to holistically take into effect the ways that all of those sectors impact community life. So one of the things that stood out to me that Dr. Knucklehead was talking about was the idea that in their pursuit of justice, of delivering on the promise of arts and cultural education as a human right, that they're also trying to abolish youth prisons. Because that is the elements that is stopping young people from reaching their full creative potential. Or they're trying to work on food justice, because that's an element that is stopping young people from reaching their creative potential. That it's not just that simple, is that we have to look at things holistically. In the same way that we look after the development of the whole child, we have to also look at the development of all of the community elements that go into making that whole child.
Karla Estela Rivera
That's absolutely right. And, and into, and how are we building these into our infrastructures? Into our city ecologies?, I can speak specifically to Chicago, for example, you know, most of the money that goes to the arts in Chicago, goes to, the north side, or our economic center downtown. And the north side, you know, is more, you know, you know, there are certainly different economic situations on the north side, but it is largely, the conditions are wildly different from the ones on the south and west sides. And so, wherever the money goes, and wherever those resources go, is where the exposure is going. And that is where the opportunities to experience and be affirmed and create and have artistic spaces as centers of community development and economic impact, you know, that is a huge loss for communities who do not have those resources. And so, some of the work that we're doing it free street as well is we were hired by the city to do cultural asset mapping work on the south and west sides in mostly Spanish speaking neighborhoods, in addition to other southern West Side communities. And part of that was one, just identifying what is there? How do the communities identify cultural assets? What are they? What are they up to? What do they need? Because we really need to do the work of ensuring that access and resources and that artistic spaces exist in those communities, not just for the sake of art, but for the sake of the fact that those spaces can do more than just the making. This is where the dialogue takes place. This is where the organizing takes place. This is where, you know, spaces that do reside and artistic spaces should be spending about 80% of their money within the community to infuse those dollars, and you know, and boost the economy. And so it is a very multi-layered, multifaceted discussion. And so again, to say that the arts are just this kind of extra, and not yet, as an essential part of the lifeblood of a community in a city and etc. tou know, is, is a narrative that needs to shift.
Jeff M. Poulin
You know, and it's interesting in in some of our research, or Creative Generation, one of our major findings from our 2019 study, that underpins a lot of the work that we do, was that both young creatives who are catalyzing social change, as well as their adult counterparts, that are creating those circumstances, for their creativity to thrive, they operate in really strict systems and structures. And that's something that that Amir and I talked about is that those structures can be exhausting, you know, and so much of our creative practice, as cultural practitioners, or actors, or musicians, or dancers, or whatever your practice is as an artist, you know, need to contribute also to our well being. Because if we as individuals aren't maintaining our personal infrastructure to use the term that you use, how can we ever contribute to these greater infrastructures of social change, that require so much of us, right? We have to strike that balance between personal well being so that we can contribute to that community well being. And I think that the making of art, the artistic healing that can come with it for ourselves, is such an important element that we can't forget.
Karla Estela Rivera
Yes. And I think that has to do with intention, right? When shelter in place was instituted in Chicago, the first thing our team did at Free Street was take some time to recalibrate in our homes. We had to rest. You know, we had to make sure our, you know, if we were parents, that our children were okay, that our elders were okay, that we personally were okay. There, you know, there was so much, so many unknowns, and even today, there's still so many unknowns. But yes, it is a, you know, I think a lot about intention. And there have been organizations and companies that have cranked out a ton of content. And some of that is, you know, in my opinion for the sake of creating content, you know? And that is not a judgment call. But I do wonder about the well being of the people making, and the intention behind the making. And so we appreciate, took a very, you know, we took a path that took our entire company into consideration before we made any very specific moves. And even now, as we're hopefully seeing light at the end of the tunnel, on this pandemic, the thing that I, my takeaway from it is that, you know, we are, and my hope is that we are entering a great reimagining of how we can do our work. How we can make work, how and where it is presented and how it is presented and how accessible it is to the folks absorbing it in whichever way that we present it. And so, you know, I would say there is, and I forget the title, the name of the of the document, but there is this document about social justice work, that everybody has a role and, and you don't necessarily stay in that particular role for the entire duration of your time in social justice work. But, you know, some of us are, you know, the more vocal advocates, some of us are, you know, resting, some of us are sitting back and doing the research and some of us are doing other things, but everybody has a turn to take the mic, is the notion. Everybody has a turn to carry the load and lift the load, and, and push the agenda forward. And we just have to be secure in the fact that whenever we want to jump back into it, in the way that we want to jump back into it, we absolutely can, but we should not be doing it at the expense of our people. There is no gold star for being exhausted. You know, this is also something that I've also seen when I was working in direct service, it was like, exhaustion as a badge of, you know, as a badge of how down you were for the cause. And that mentality does very little for the cause, but deeply deeply impacts your workforce and your, and the people that you are depending on to help continue that. So as a leader, I'm very cognizant of that. And as a leader, I also feel that I need to forgive myself sometimes. And then I need to call myself out. And so my hope is that, as we evolve out of this pandemic, that well-being is as important as the output, whatever that may be.
Jeff M. Poulin
I think that that is such a wonderful perspective, Karla, because, you know, that idea of a badge of honor of being like burnt out is so real within the nonprofit industrial complex, at least here in the United States. And I'll just speak from that perspective. And I think it's interesting too, because it also implies that social justice work is a certain segment, that one can step in or step out of. And it's interesting, we did a study a couple of months ago, and have been working it through in a pilot phase with educators across the US intertwining social justice, education, and the kind of developmentally appropriate standards that have been developed in that world, and arts education with the developmentally appropriate standards that have been developed in that world. And it's fascinating because there was an educator who at the, I think fifth and final session of this pilot said, well, shouldn't we just call it arts education? Because shouldn't all arts education be intertwined with social justice? And you know, that kind of, as the academic in me was like, well, but how would people know that what we're talking about is two things coming together? But then it made me think, or I was like, You know what? That's right. And I think if we assume that all of our work focused on communities, or young people or arts and culture or whatever has to be integrated with social justice really has to have that lens on it- then we also need to accept exactly what you're saying that sometimes you're the social justice person that's resting. Sometimes you're the social justice person that's writing, sometimes you're the social justice person that's out in front and leading a group. but that you are always carrying the banner, doing what you need to do, even if that's taking a nap on a Tuesday afternoon, because that's what you need to do to heal. I think that's such an important perspective. Wow, I, we could do a whole episode on that, Karla. Unfortunately, that does bring us to the end of our time here today. But before we leave, I want to ask you what's going on, you know, next for you in the next few weeks, what should our listeners be paying attention to out in the world?
Karla Estela Rivera
Hmm. So in June, Free Street will have its, you know, this project 57 Blocks, we will be doing our workshop, performance, digital performance of 57 blocks, which will be coming out in June, which we're very, very excited about. This is kind of the precursor to the big show, which we hope to happen live. And our goal is, you know, when it does happen live that our audiences will begin to play at our Pulaski Park location and get on a bus and the play will continue until we get to the end of those 57 blocks to back of the yards. So we're very, very excited about that. We'll also be engaging in an individual giving campaign to raise funds for this particular show. So all of that will be coming up in June. And we are continuing to do our work in cultural asset mapping and developing and highlighting and uplifting our communities on the south and west sides and the cultural assets that they bring and that they celebrate. And we can't wait to share that out so that folks can engage with it, and have more discussions around that. And then otherwise, you know, we're just continuing to, you know, develop, you know what the plan is, on a personal level… God, summer is just, it's tomorrow. So what does that world look like? And how are we, you know, creating some really fun opportunities, not only for myself, because Hello? rest! But also, you know, for my daughter and our family and things.
Jeff M. Poulin
I'm right there with you with the summer, I am very excited for that. And you know, the work never does end, it sounds like you have a lot on your plate. We also have a lot going on. But I'm very excited to take phone calls and write things outside. We have a nice little backyard, so it will definitely be my plan for the future. For listeners, though, I would encourage you to check out too - there is an international celebration happening from the 24th to the 30th of May- It is international Arts Education Week designated by the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization, or UNESCO. And this year's theme is actually about arts, education and social inclusion. So that week, we'll be highlighting a ton of stories exactly like what we've been talking about in Los Angeles and in Chicago, focused on how arts education can contribute to the development of young people, particularly those young people who are experiencing challenges that that put them on the margins, and really focusing on the outcomes of social inclusion. So that should be a great time too and everyone should mark their calendars. Well, Karla, that is it for today. Thanks so much everyone for listening to the Why change? podcast thanks to Dr. Knucklehead Amir Whitaker for joining us. And thank you, Karla for being here today.
Karla Estela Rivera
So happy to be here. Thanks, Jeff.
Jeff M. Poulin
I hope you enjoyed today's episode of why change the podcast for Creative Generation. If you would like to support this podcast aimed at amplifying the voices of creative changemakers around the world, please consider donating through the link located in the episodes show notes. These show notes contain all sources discussed in the episode. Be sure to follow, like, subscribe, and share the why change podcast to make sure you and your networks get episodes delivered directly to you and that you don't miss any stories of creative work happening around the world. If you haven't already, be sure to follow us on social media, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and LinkedIn. Also, we'd love to hear from you. You can write to us at info at Creative generation.org we'd love to hear your ideas, the topics you want to learn about and why change matters to you. Our show is produced and edited by Daniel Stanley. Our music is by Distant Cousins. A special thanks to our contributors, co hosts and the team at Creative Generation for their support. Are you hoping to promote an event, advertise a job, or recruit people to participate in one of your programs? Creative Generation has a number of opportunities to advertise your work through our platforms with the campaign for Creative Generation and the Why Change? podcast. Check out our website at Creative dash generation dotorg and click the Get Involved button to learn more about our advertising packages.
Part B
In this episode co-hosts Karla Estela Rivera and Jeff M. Poulin talk about arts education in the context of social justice. Jeff goes on to speak with Amir Whitaker, aka Dr. Knucklehead, who is a musician, lawyer, and activist, working primarily in Los Angeles through his organization Project Knucklehead and with the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union). Dr. Knucklehead shares with Jeff his experiences that led him to understand how severely endangered arts education is, especially where it is needed most. He goes on to share his own journey, traveling through the African diaspora to learn more about Afro culture and how eradicating the arts is part of oppression. “I've noticed is culture and art is like a passport,” says Amir, explaining how the arts can help connect people from various parts of the world, from various walks of life.
With Dr. Knucklehead’s ideas in mind, Jeff and Karla discuss how arts education and social justice can and should be integrated, regarded as a holistic process that doesn’t disregard the many facets of living and being well in this world. Karla points out how output often comes at the expense of well being in both education and social justice organizations. Pointing this out “there is no gold star for being exhausted” and expressing hope that as we transition through or out of the global pandemic we will learn to commit to the full meaning of justice within our societies, among our organizations and team, and between ourselves as indivudals.